Tag Archives: mantua

Elsa mantua- unusual inspiration 1

While I edit and standardise some files I thought I’d also share some of why I decided on a mantua over a francaise: The Blue second Managers gown from Phantom of the Opera.

The 1870s had a heady mix of 18th century inspiration. Right across the Baroque to Rococo.

So there are times where self fabric or matched colour trimmings mimic or reference the latter part of the century, so too are there times the mantua is a clear inspiration.

This is especially true for the late 1870s as the waist dropped a little, and the bodice hem dropped further. The entire style was narrow, with a focus on the tablier (front of skirt panel) and a looped back train.

It’s possible to consider pannier style drapery as the extension of the front of the mantua robe, and the water fall as the back of the robe. The apron drapery can even be brought in separately though usually these seem to be of a different material.

I am quite enjoying the fact that my mantua can be used to illustrate the similarities and differences in cut and fit and in construction as I used my library of patterns for both my own Blue dress and Mantua.

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Elsa mantua inspiration -3

I’m separating each inspiration source, so here is the Welsh Museum garment with a bit more information.

COLLECTION AREA Social & Cultural History
ITEM NUMBER 23.189.1
MATERIAL damask (silk) metal thread silver parchment flax (spun and twisted) silk (spun and twisted)

https://museum.wales/collections/online/object/e2ce99c3-462b-3da3-af0a-953e4f94008d/Dress/footer/

I don’t know if it’s possible to convey how much I love this gown.

A few people have managed to take photos when it has been exhibited and it does exactly as expected- the colour shifts to a more aqua tone.

British circa 1730 Teal Spitalfields Silk Court Mantua possibly belonged to Lady Rachel Morgan nee Cavendish daughter of the Duke of Devonshire. St Fagans National Museum of Wales

ttps://twitter.com/ladycecilynevil/status/1251855616487849985

For a pattern and a lot more information:

Arnold, Janet, A court mantua of c. 1740,Costume, London,#6, 1972, pp 48 – 52.

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Elsa mantua inspiration -1

My progress has gotten to the “piece very chunky silver lace into an invisible join” stage of my own Mantua, so to let my mind work in the background on that I’m using the front of my mind to look at my inspiration garments.

So the first is the one that started it all. Many years ago I was perusing the University library and a tiny book on some garments of the Museum of London. At the time I had the Arnold and Payne pattern diagrams of the Kimberly gown in the Metropolitan museum of art and was interested. But also I had all the fashion prints that show decorations are like very ornate piped icing on tall and narrow cakes.

It was not my deal. But the early London Museum mantua strips all the ostentation down to the stomacher.

Now this is “Me.” All the fit is in the pleats and turnings, much of which is done from the outside. What a nifty and frustrating way for someone used to draping and drafting toiles!

I wish I could link to the museum but they no longer have a record of the garment.

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Elsa Mantua foundations

I have all my stay pieces. They are a beautiful satin faced linen, a very close weave so still will be a bit warm.

I need to cut some straps, but all the channels are stitched and it is fully boned. Meaning no gap between bones. The majority of stays are like this. But the channels also tend to be much smaller. I’m using some left over cable ties as I can quickly swap out permanently bent ones. Without waiting on a package from overseas 🙂

Actually I do want to order a huge amount of ultra thin boning. I think I could actually get a better match to the extremes between my rib and waist that way but also I will be able to do so a bit more comfortably.

Cording just collapses.

I’ve had a look for stay patterns as close to 1700 as possible and I think I need to alter a few pieces. I’m missing a little extra at the waist in either a side front panel or side back.

I had to include Garsault here for the boning within each panel, but a c1700 Polish manual (scroll down to 2016)and a 1713 manual (there are two parts so I linked to my reference site) can be used with it.

The Linzner Schittbuch also includes some gowns.

I think I used Hunnisette for the basic shapes to allow me to have a little leeway for my ribs because they distort stays even like this. It’s very hard to get a conical shape, so the way Hunnsett’s works seems to work with me.

I keep really wanting to go earlier as well like these:

But look at how fine all those channels are. And these are not outliers. Most of the stays even from the 16thC have narrow channels.

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Elsa inspired mantua

Finally, I’ve started to get back to projects. I really need something with no rules, and makes use of two very pretty but modern fabrics, a shot blue taffeta and a heavy fully sequined lace. It was very hard to decide between my two designs. My few rules are it does stick to historic cut, and to use up all of both fabrics. 4m of the lace, I think it was 9m of the blue.

Deciding to go all in on an early Mantua by pinning my lace the full width? Wow.

I started adding all of my references but I think I should do that over a few posts so I can focus on each properly.

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manteau-or not (inc patterns)

We tend to think of all open robes of the 1680s to early eighteenth century as “mantua” or “manteau.” However there are at least two documentable pattern types to over gowns of this era.

The mantua as often described is a garment with a very unique construction. It puts all the side skirt shaping on a single wedge of fabric, made of several widths of fabric, entirely in line with the front panels. The angled top edge lined up with the side of the back, the short piece (with the grain) in line with the front. This leaves the bottom of the piece to the hem that keeps the grain perpendicular to the floor no matter how long the train becomes.

To create my own pattern I collected and redrew every pattern of an extant garment published and redrew them to the same scale (1/4) and overlaid them to understand the interplay between each pattern piece. I ignored facings, cuffs, and petticoats and focused on the over garments.

All current “mantua” patterns overlaid to show the proportions of each.

Pattern type 1

A traditional method of dividing the side fullness between the front and back can be seen in the patterns of Albayzeta from 1720. Included are several “ropa de levantar.” The

edited from: Geometria y trazas pertenecientes al oficio de sastres ….
Juan Albayzeta
por Francisco Revilla, 1720 – 95 pages

https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=LOPc3rKe1-gC

This pattern is for a garment with a very long train, though there is also a secondary hemline drawn where the skirt back would just touch the ground- most of the patterns for “rope de levantar of this book are of the shorter type.

Of the extant garments that have been patterned the Danish gown most closely resembles this. It’s possible to find the parallel seams joining fabric widths as well as a seam between the two diagonal sides.

Moden i 1700-aÌŠrene
Author: Ellen Andersen
Publisher: [København] : Nationalmuseet, cop. 1977.
Series: Danske dragter

https://www.worldcat.org/title/moden-i-1700-arene/oclc/835178454?referer=di&ht=edition
My redrawing after a pattern in Moden i 1700-aÌŠrene by Ellen Andersen

Moden i 1700-aÌŠrene
Author: Ellen Andersen
Publisher: [København] : Nationalmuseet, cop. 1977.
Series: Danske dragter

https://www.worldcat.org/title/moden-i-1700-arene/oclc/835178454?referer=di&ht=edition

Pattern type 2

There is an open robe in Norway’s National Museum that is a single wedge each side but it is in line with the back panel.

Datering: Ca. 1720
Betegnelse: Drakt
Inventarnr.: OK-dep-01160
Eier og samling: Nasjonalmuseet, Designsamlingene
Foto: Nasjonalmuseet / Larsen, Frode Last ned.

http://samling.nasjonalmuseet.no/no/object/OK-dep-01160

The skirt is narrow and is worn with a very solid and full underskirt. This arrangement could mean the best display of the brocade pattern was at the side back.

Pattern type 3

Of the mantua type we are left with several garments in both English and American museums all with the wedge shaped piece matched to the front..

The earliest example appears to be the Kimberley gown held at the Metropolitan Museum in New York. The earliest date appears to be 1695.

Mantua
Date: late 17th century
Culture: British
Medium: wool, metal thread
Credit Line: Rogers Fund, 1933
Accession Number:33.54a, b

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/81718

This garment has been pattern by both Nora Waugh and Blanche Payne, they differ slightly but the principle is the same and in both patterns the side fullness is entirely in line with the front panel.

My redrawing after a pattern in The Cut of Women’s Clothes, 1600-1930 by Norah Waugh- note there is no join line in this draft.

The cut of women’s clothes, 1600-1930
Author: Norah Waugh; Margaret Woodward
Publisher: New York : Routledge : Theatre Arts Books, [1968] ©1968

https://www.worldcat.org/title/cut-of-womens-clothes-1600-1930/oclc/250274
My redrawing after a pattern in History of Costume by Blanche Payne-note this join line is in the original draft.

History of costume, from the ancient Egyptians to the twentieth century. Drawings by Elizabeth Curtis.
Author: Blanche Payne
Publisher: New York, Harper & Row [1965]

https://www.worldcat.org/title/history-of-costume-from-the-ancient-egyptians-to-the-twentieth-century-drawings-by-elizabeth-curtis/oclc/1086817570&referer=brief_results

The next garment that has been patterned is from Shrewsbury c1710.

Mantua.18th century (1710). Shrewsbury Museums Service (SHYMS: T/1973/6/1). Image sy14193

http://www.darwincountry.org/explore/022360.html?ImageID=22370&Page=42#Gallery

This was patterned by Janet Arnold (Patterns of Fashion 1: Englishwomen’s Dresses and Their Construction C. 1660-1860).

My redrawing after a pattern in Patterns of Fashion 1 by Janet Arnold

Patterns of fashion. . 1. : Englishwomen’s dresses and their construction c.1660-1860.
Author: Janet Arnold
Publisher: London : Macmillan, 1977.

https://www.worldcat.org/title/patterns-of-fashion-1-englishwomens-dresses-and-their-construction-c1660-1860/oclc/248594714&referer=brief_results

I have divided the pattern so that the shapes can be compared more easily to the other garments- this garment has the sleeves cut with the body. The pattern can be easily put back as the dividing lines are the only diagonal lines in the draft.

Of special interest is the length of the front of the mantua. It is quite short (see image of overlaid pattern drafts.). Holme confirms that this is a common feature of mantua.

“A mantua is a kind of loose Coat without stayes [sic] in it, the Body part and Sleeves are of many fashions as i have mentioned in the Gown Body; but the skirt is sometimes no longer than the Knees, others have them down to the Heels. The short skirt is open before, and behind to the middle.”

The academy of armory, or, …
627-1699. https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A44230.0001.001/1:7.3.3?rgn=div3;view=fulltext

This next garment from 1720-1730 and is housed at the Museum of London and patterned by Zillah Halls in Women’s Costumes 1600-1750: London Museum. This garment is not currently digitised or on display.

Women’s costumes 1600-1750,
Author: Zillah Halls; London Museum.
Publisher: London, H.M.S.O., 1969.

https://www.worldcat.org/title/womens-costumes-1600-1750/oclc/49093
My redrawing after a pattern in Women’s Costume 1600-1750 by Zillah Halls

Women’s costumes 1600-1750,
Author: Zillah Halls; London Museum.
Publisher: London, H.M.S.O., 1969.

https://www.worldcat.org/title/womens-costumes-1600-1750/oclc/49093

Another garment at the Museum of London was patterned by Nora Waugh, but not photographed. It is from 1735-1745 and uses the same construction. The train has been pinned up to the waist in the illustration but the pattern does not indicate any change in the construction.

The cut of women’s clothes, 1600-1930
Author: Norah Waugh; Taylor & Francis.
Publisher: Boca Raton, FL : Routledge, an imprint of Taylor and Francis, [2013]. ©1987.

https://www.worldcat.org/title/cut-of-womens-clothes-1600-1930/oclc/1074444804&referer=brief_results
My redrawing after a pattern in Cut of Women’s Clothes, 1600-190 by Norah Waugh

The cut of women’s clothes, 1600-1930
Author: Norah Waugh; Taylor & Francis.
Publisher: Boca Raton, FL : Routledge, an imprint of Taylor and Francis, [2013]. ©1987.

https://www.worldcat.org/title/cut-of-womens-clothes-1600-1930/oclc/1074444804&referer=brief_results

And again this mantua is shorter at the front than the anticipated petticoat hemline (see image of overlaid pattern drafts.)

These are unfortunately the only garments with patterns I have been able to find but there are several more that have been catalogued and the skirt layout captured in photographs.

Manteau without patterns

The Metropolitan Museum has another early mantua example and the photographs do suggest the construction is of a kind- comparing the alignment of the pattern to the outside of the side back join in fabric shows it is in line with the hem not the seam.

Mantua
Date: ca. 1708
Culture: British
Medium: silk, metal
Credit Line: Purchase, Rogers Fund, Isabel Shults Fund and Irene Lewisohn
Bequest, 1991
Accession Number:1991.6.1a, b

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/81809

A mantua in the Victoria & Albert Museum in London has been dated to 1733-1740 based on fabric (earlier date) and cut (later date). This gown has been photographed to show the construction of the skirt. This photo shows the brocade has been reversed from below hip level of the back panels and most of the side panels. This is so that only the face of the brocade is seen when worn and pinned in place.

Mantua
Place of origin:
Spitalfields (probably, woven) Great Britain (made)
Date: 1733-1734 (woven) 1735-1740 (made)
Artist/Maker: Unknown
Materials and Techniques: Brocaded silk, hand-sewn with spun silk and spun threads, lined with linen, brown paper lining for cuffs, brass, canvas and pleated silk
Credit Line: Given by Gladys Windsor Fry
Museum number: T.324&A-1985

http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O71872/mantua-unknown/

The Lincolnshire Mantua has been dated to 1735 based on the fabric and over all pattern pieces. This particular mantua has the train and most side panels reversed so that when pinned for display only the face of the brocade is seen.

The Lincoln Mantua

https://www.lincolnshirelife.co.uk/posts/view/the-mystery-of-the-mantua

Mantua dated after these examples can be recognised by the folding of the train which follows the folding of the Lincoln mantua and the floral brocades mantua in the V&A as above.

One of the earliest is a blue silk mantua at the Victoria and Albert museum. From the 1720s it retains the extra length in the train despite being pinned up.

Place of origin: Spitalfields (textile, weaving) England (mantua, sewing)
Date: ca. 1720 (weaving) 1720-1730 (sewing)
Artist/Maker: Unknown
Materials and Techniques: Silk, silk thread, silver-gilt thread; hand-woven brocading, hand-sewn.
Museum number: T.88 to C-19788

http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O13810/mantua-unknown/

A brown brocaded silk mantua is also of this earlier type and is dated to 1732-1740.

Place of origin: Spitalfields (textile, weaving) Great Britain (ensemble, sewing)
Date: ca. 1732 (weaving) 1735-1740 (sewing) 1870 – 1910 (altered)
Artist/Maker: Unknown
Materials and Techniques: Silk, silk thread; hand-woven brocade, hand sewn
Museum number: T.9&A-1971

http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O71535/mantua-unknown/

Other garments described as mantua are harder to confirm from the photos.

The earliest is held at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art with a date of 1700. It is perhaps the most stunning example of its kind. A deep rich blue silk satin, the petticoat completely covered in metal embroidery, the sleeves and stomacher ditto, only the train seems to be more sparsely covered.

Woman’s Dress (Mantua) with Stomacher and Petticoat
Italy, circa 1700
Costumes; principal attire (entire body)
Silk satin with metallic-thread embroidery
Center back length (Dress): 67 in. (170.18 cm)
Length (Stomacher): 16 1/4 in. (41.28 cm) Center
back length (Petticoat): 41 3/4 in. (106.05 cm)
Costume Council Fund (M.88.39a-c)

https://collections.lacma.org/node/170609

A stunning embroidered mantua is held at the National Museum of Wales, dated to the 1720s though much of the train has been removed during the nineteenth century.

COLLECTION AREA mwl
ITEM NUMBER 23.189.1
ACQUISITION Donation
MEASUREMENTS height (mm):1400 width (mm):2000 (max) depth (mm):1500 (max)
TECHNIQUES metal thread embroidery hand sewn weaving
MATERIAL damask (silk) metal thread silver parchment flax (spun and twisted) silk (spun and twisted)
LOCATION In store
CATEGORIES Court

https://museum.wales/collections/online/object/e2ce99c3-462b-3da3-af0a-953e4f94008d/Dress/?field0=string&value0=Tredegar&field1=with_images&value1=on&field2=string&value2=Dress&index=6

A pale blue damask(?) mantua is held at the Manchester Art Gallery and appears to also be sewn so as to allow the face of the brocade to always be arranged outwards.

mantua dress
Acknowledgement: © Manchester
City Galleries
Created by:
Created: 1740-1742

http://manchesterartgallery.org/collections/search/collection/?id=1989.220

Another blue and silver mantua is held at the Kyoto Costume Institute and again has skirt panels reversed so as to always display the face of the brocade.

Dress (Mantua) 1740-50s – England
Material Blue silk taffeta brocade with botanical pattern, buttons to tack train; matching petticoat.
Dimension Length from the hips 183cm (Train)
Inventory Number(s) AC10788 2002-29AB

https://www.kci.or.jp/en/archives/digital_archives/1700s_1750s/KCI_007

While this garment has been dated to the 1750s i believe it is somewhat earlier. The skirt as displayed does not fit well suggesting it was not worn over wide hoops. The train has been folded and appears to show the fabric has been reversed in a similar manner to the above folded mantua trains. So it could be 1720-1740.

A COURT MANTUA OF CHINESE IMPERIAL YELLOW SILK DAMASK, THE SILK CIRCA 1740, THE MANTUA 1750S
the bodice with long sweeping train of elaborately folded damask buttoning in swags onto two silk covered buttons at the small of the back, the bodice re pleated as a closed robe, the petticoats re-strung, shown here worn with a stomacher which is part of lot 141

https://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/a-court-mantua-of-chinese-imperial-yellow-5018370-details.aspx

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18th century musings

Well this has been a tough decision and I’m still not sure.

First is my 100% dino shot taffeta. It’s a really heavy weight incredibly crisp and is such a beautiful shade I can forgive the content. But I usually have a very distinct line between historic and historic inspired.

Second is my black silk. Very heavy, very heavy. Also able to be used front and back.

sm_dsc_1518 sm_dsc_1520 76c655368e1abea996bf521c24afb1a3

Seriously torn as to which to make from it. Other options for the blue is a francaise or 1870s convertable gown.

The black silk can be anything from 16thC on!

sm_dsc_1517 sm_dsc_1516

Also my beaded silk? Sigh it really does look fab as a Reinette inspired gown. But I also want to go total fantasy with it and yet it drapes so nicely over hoops.

Also coming soon, a fancier Leia wig tutorial. Also her buns are so much bigger than most costumers realise… I need to do a scale diagram.  But her buns sit on her dress collar.

star-wars4-movie-screencaps-com-6683

They may also get bigger the more sass she expresses.

sm_dsc_1705

And also I am having major issues with the way the lace sits at the crown. I have already done major work on this so I may as well get the sectioning clips out to stitch that down!

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More inspiration! c1700 mantua!

It’s not surprise I am obsessed with the style. I have been for more than a decade but never found a fabric I thought would do the style justice. Well now I do have a fabric! And thanks to an online friend sharing images from her own research that connection was sparked and the final push to actually make one inspired!

Many moons ago a very well respected costumier who creates the most amazing 18thC gowns gave me information on a few mantua especially one of my favourite gowns ever, he shared privately but there is now an official source:

kjole

National Museets Samlinger Online
Kjole med slæb, grøn silke
Beskrivelse
Kjole med slæb. Af grøn silke med broderet guldmønster, antagelig 1740erne. Fra Valdemar Slot, Tåsinge.
(I have a pattern for this)

 

76c655368e1abea996bf521c24afb1a3
Victoria and Albert Museum.
Blue silk: Museum no. T.88 to C-1978, early 18thC (note the skirt is essentially a full ruffle from hip height)
3aab1bdaf2398849c8e9bbfa781f3433
Shrewsbury Museums Service:
Mantua.18th century (1710).(SHYMS: T/1973/6/1). Image sy14188

835cfae8425c6857d96840c701a161db fb00e267c9f7d8707842d5d0baecc5d1

National Museum Wales:
Silver embroidered blue damask court mantua (an open fronted gown with an elaborate train), (mix of suggested dates, 1720-1740)
Tredegar Collection

8d573f02739441f6caf0b0adc5b9a4a2
Date: late 17th century
Culture: British
Medium: wool, metal thread
Credit Line: Rogers Fund, 1933
Accession Number: 33.54a, b
(
I have two patterns for this)
c34d72cb1a92d3ee9a7a03db7d5d59ffMetropolitan Museum of Art: Mantua (note the skirt is a series of reverse flounces!)
Date: ca. 1708
Culture: British
Medium: silk, metal
Credit Line: Purchase, Rogers Fund, Isabel Shults Fund and Irene Lewisohn Bequest, 1991
Accession Number: 1991.6.1a, b

Canon 20D Digital Capture

Los Angeles County Museum of Art
Woman’s Mantua with Stomacher and Petticoat
Italy, circa 1700
Costumes; principal attire (entire body)
Silk satin with gold- and silver-metallic thread embroidery
a) Dress: Center back length: 56 in. (142.2 cm); b) Petticoat: Center front length: 35 in. (88.9 cm)
Costume Council Fund (M.88.39a-c)

lincoln lincoln2

Collections of the Lincoln Museums:
Usher Gallery, The Lincolnshire mantua
(
There is a pattern to a similar garment in the first PDF, also a skirt layout and layout of the train. All three documents are available to download and are incredibly fascinating!)

 

I have another favourite from the Museum of London but there is no link online.

I will share a thumbnail though and hopefully in time the museum will have this on their site:

mantuamol

Museum of London
Dress 1720-30 (no. 2) front view, with added STOMACHER, 1720-1730 (no.39)
(I have a pattern for this)

This does not appear to in their collections, I will update as soon as I know more. I much prefer to link to the collections rather than take from a book, but I can at least, hopefully, generate interest in this garment!)

 

So I have a fantastic start, a nice range of extant garments to look at trends and to decide on particular style.

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1720 Tailor's manual

I have posted this before but wanted to make sure that this was really put out there so to speak :)

Geometria y trazas By Juan Albayzeta, 1720.

So a lot of this is religious apparel, but oh what do we see?

f75-78? Ropa de levantar para muger

Looks like a…

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1720 Tailor’s manual

I have posted this before but wanted to make sure that this was really put out there so to speak :)

Geometria y trazas By Juan Albayzeta, 1720.

So a lot of this is religious apparel, but oh what do we see?

f75-78? Ropa de levantar para muger

Looks like a…

View Post

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